It seems many non-Jews are now signing up for jdate, the online Jewish singles' site. Predictably, the gentile women want stable, reliable men with good jobs, possibly ones who, despite what their presense on jdate suggests, actually prefer non-Jewish women (one woman puts in her profile that she wishes to be someone's "shiksa"), and the gentile men want well-put-together, assertive women. Mensches and JAPs, in other, more dated, words.
All I can say is, how creepy. It makes sense that, like any group, Jews would attract their share of ethnic fetishists or people who swallow whole every positive stereotype they hear them. But jdate is supposed to connect actual people, of an actual religious heritage, not provide women statistically more likely to wear nice clothes or men statistically more likely to be professionals.
People sign up for jdate, I'd imagine, because they want to meet fellow Jews in order to have Jewish families. Sure, the idea is to meet people to date, but in the context of jdate, that means people to try out as possible marriage partners. That non-Jews' profiles get responses at all is a testament to the desperation of people on any singles' site--that a person happens not to actually be Jewish isn't so different than if he turned out to be much older, shorter, or fatter than he'd claimed.
Jdate should be for those either already Jewish or interested in converting. I wouldn't say that this should be enforced, but I would say it's how things ought to be. The reason jdate exists is that it can be difficult for Jews, even those without much trouble finding dates, to find ones within the faith, especially if they're living in places without many other Jews. This makes jdate quite different from generic singles' sites which just exist to increase people's overall number of possibilities.
What's unsettling, though, is how much the Style section piece reveals to what extent stereotypes of pushy Jewish women and push-over (but wealthy) Jewish men still exist in the public consciousness.
Saturday, December 04, 2004
Outdated jdate
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9 comments:
I would go the step further and say yes, people who are not Jewish should not be allowed to be on JDate. If JDate took themselves seriously as a place where people could meet, they'd allow for exclusivity, and keep it for Jews only. I guess "Willing to Convert" would be an acceptable category--in fact, it tells you more than "Traditional" or "Unaffiliated" does, IMHO. But then again, I've got a column on that being published next week, so maybe I'm a little oversensitive.
Just replace "Jewish" or "Jews" with "white" or "whites" everywhere it appears in your little post here, and see if you would find anything wrong with it.
"What's unsettling, though, is how much the Style section piece reveals to what extent stereotypes of pushy Jewish women and push-over (but wealthy) Jewish men still exist in the public consciousness."
And yet, somehow, the sun rises every morning and sets every evening. Look, when a person starts complaining about positive stereotypes, I think it's time for a nice long vacation.
You are al right..try to see what jaters.com
are doing..a lot more open minded site for everyone
I am offended by the statement that gentile women are looking to date Jewish men because they want "stable, reliable men with good jobs, possibly ones who, despite what their presense on jdate suggests, actually prefer non-Jewish women". Not all of us "gentile women" buy into such inaccurate stereotypes. Nor are we so desperate for stable relationships that we would dare "steal" such a mench from a Jewish woman. I expended a lot of energy on a relationship with a Jewish man before I was aware of this rather distasteful part of the Jewish culture (i.e. the disdain for shiksas treading on the nice Jewish girl's territory). I entered into a relationship with him because we were intellectually compatible and attracted to each other, not because I was looking for a nice man to take care of me. Despite the fact that he had a "good job", he was an unstable, unpredictable momma's boy who preferred dating non-Jewish women, but didn't have the chutzpah to defend his choice when push came to shove. I have 5-6 times the earning potential that he does and two additional graduate degrees (we are both MDs, but I attended a much more prestigious school and am in a much more competitive specialty). I am a very open-minded, well-educated woman with spiritual beliefs and a world view that transcend organized religion, particularly any religion/culture that would refer to other human being who is investing her time and emotional energy in someone else as an abdomination or unclean (i.e. "shiksa"). My advice to non-Jews is to stay off of jdate to avoid the misery of trying to interact within this culture.
To Esther: You say JDate should be allowed to be exclusively Jewish. Perhaps there should also be a site called WhiteDate, where only whites are allowed in. No Jews, no Negroes, just Whites. Do you see the folly of your logic? Or are you secretly racist? I find it interesting how Jews tend to be so vocal and pushy about diversity and racial integration, yet so few Jews date outside their own race.
For all you women who haven't dated Jewish men, an alarmingly large percentage of them are in fact "momma's boys," as one commenter put it. This because Jewish mothers dote on their little male "prince" to the point where the poor child learns quickly that he need not do anything himself, because his mother will do it for him. I speak from experience, having dated a single Jewish woman for more than three years now and having watched how she interacts with her 7-year-old son and how her parents and relatives interact with their children. Her son still doesn't feed himself--at each meal she sits beside him and patiently feeds him with spoon and fork while he sits on the couch and watches TV, never tearing his eyes from the screen as the food is placed ever-so-lovingly in his mouth. The child is also allowed to do and say anything he feels like doing, because to gently reprimand him might permanently scar the poor creature. I could go on and on, but in short the stereotype of the pushy, overbearing, obnoxiously neurotic Jewish mother is unfortunately very much based in reality. (And my girlfriend and her extended family are the first to laughingly admit this.)
Your wife just has boundary issues, which have nothing to do with religion. She could probably benefit from some psych meds, or therapy to help her deal with the problem behavior she learned from her upbringing.
These commenters are amazingly racist while professing to be justified in their stereotyping. If you were to choose a quality out of a hat and apply it a race chosen out of a hat, you cold hold up plenty of examples to justify your view. That wouldn't make it true.
And to the last commenter, having something like JDate is no more racist than a Catholic school dance, a Puerto Rican social club, etc.
Honestly, I can see this from both sides, and as a shiksa myself, here is my opinion:
If my boyfriend and I ever tie the knot, I'm going to convert. My reasons being that 1) being Jewish is alot more important to him then being southern baptist is to me 2) He wants his kids raised to be Jewish (and how am I supposed to do that if I'm not Jewish?) 3) You can't understand someone unless you know truly where they come from and how they were raised 4) Love and marriage is hard enough with out some huge, pre-existing rift in the couple.
All of those are great reasons, but I'd still have to do it for myself most of all.
At this point, he is helping me research the religion, so that I can better understand it. It IS hard reading the orthodox views on intermarriage, but in order to understand everything I have to absorb everything.
Now, my boyfriend would NEVER ask me to convert. His ex wife was a catholic, in fact and she never converted.
It's a choice I'm more then willing to make to make both of our lives easier and more fufilling.
The really interesting thing is that he would not consider himself a "good" Jew, and never goes to temple, NOR does he keep kosher.
Truthfully, for him being Jewish is a cultural thing, more so then a religion. Sort of like how my family rarely went to church, but still celebrates Christmas and Easter.
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