tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post8313231133278415240..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: The Beauty Myth, Part IPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-46617322976534998592013-05-17T12:51:24.787-04:002013-05-17T12:51:24.787-04:00Lisa,
That's interesting! I've written be...Lisa,<br /><br />That's interesting! I've <a href="http://whatwouldphoebedo.blogspot.com/2012/01/choice-feminism.html" rel="nofollow">written before</a> something related. To sum up what I now see was a very long post, my sense is that the belief that women are all inherently bisexual (as opposed to, some women are bisexual, as are some men, but the social pressure on men to pick one/act straight is much greater) comes from this idea that women fundamentally don't care what a partner looks like. Also that women do not have sexual desires, period, but rather just put up with sex in order to have relationships/social status. In that framework, a heterosexual woman is simply one who wants a boyfriend/husband, not one who actively desires men. <br /><br />But I hadn't considered how confusing this definition of female sexuality, in which male looks don't matter, could be to women who are doing exactly what society imagines and not lusting after men... but it's because they like women. If we imagine that under the best of circumstances, women are merely putting up with men, despite finding men physically unappealing, well, that would make one big clue about one's sexuality harder to figure out. Of course, then there's the attraction-to-women aspect, but then there's the social expectation that even straight women will have very close "girlfriends," so... long story short, I see how something along the lines of what you describe could happen.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-6953539511393342232013-05-17T12:14:36.802-04:002013-05-17T12:14:36.802-04:00"Wolf and I do not have the exact same take o..."Wolf and I do not have the exact same take on male beauty - she praises women for caring about the person, not what he looks like, and more troublingly, suggests that women come to find certain men beautiful once they get to know them, their looks presumably not entering into it."<br /><br />This notion that men's looks don't/aren't supposed to matter as much to straight women is precisely why it took me such a (relatively) long time to work out that I was actually sexually attracted to women and not men.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-37547106566694109262013-05-16T09:02:55.236-04:002013-05-16T09:02:55.236-04:00If you are interested, but can't get past the ...If you are interested, but can't get past the New Yorker paywall, here are a couple excerpts <a href="http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/01/new-yorker-danish-tv/" rel="nofollow">excerpts</a> from the piece.Peteynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-51972844644008880312013-05-16T08:57:49.368-04:002013-05-16T08:57:49.368-04:00"If Danish TV is anything like Norwegian TV, ...<i>"If Danish TV is anything like Norwegian TV, than it looks like it was made by a community theater filming a show on cable access."</i><br /><br />Danish TV is actually different, and really quite exceptional.<br /><br />There was a halfway decent <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/01/07/130107fa_fact_collins" rel="nofollow">article in the New Yorker</a> a few months back on the topic, using the widespread popularity of subtitled Danish TV in Britain as its hook.<br /><br />The article's thesis is that Danish TV has created a long-term and very smart institutional system that heavily cross-pollinates with the national Danish film school and the Danish film industry to crank out excellent teevee show after excellent teevee show.<br /><br />My only problem with the article is that, while it mentions him, I think it gives short-shrift to the pivotal role of the singular Lars Von Trier in kicking things up to a whole 'nother level. Once you put <i>The Kingdom</i> on national teevee as a mega-event, it <b>really</b> raises the bar for everyone who comes after...Peteynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-5700608029102710692013-05-16T00:25:35.467-04:002013-05-16T00:25:35.467-04:00What I really need is Flemish television. Unfortun...What I really need is Flemish television. Unfortunately, Belgium is one of those countries where they watch American and British shows with subtitles. Which is great insofar as that's why I can chat fluently with my in-laws, but not so great for chatting even haltingly in their language.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-60506930727852777992013-05-15T23:29:27.778-04:002013-05-15T23:29:27.778-04:00If Danish TV is anything like Norwegian TV, than i...If Danish TV is anything like Norwegian TV, than it looks like it was made by a community theater filming a show on cable access. (Sweden and Norway, and I'd assume Denmark as well, have anti-Anglocization policies wrt media, so that xx% of TV shows have to be locally made, rather than American or BBC imports. This allows for a thriving, if low-budget TV industry where most similar sized countries would just be dubbing CSI and call it a day.)<br /><br /><i>Being the good Marxian economic determinist that I am, I'd propose that the radical explosion of the GINI coefficient in the US since Wolf's book was published has had no small effect in creating a more sea lion-like sexual dimorphism in human US society.</i><br /><br />This sounds very plausible.Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02224221011978374915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-30179100910368471542013-05-15T18:48:14.965-04:002013-05-15T18:48:14.965-04:00"It would seem that everything Wolf mentions ...<i>"It would seem that everything Wolf mentions has gotten more extensive. There's a whole new world of procedures between cosmetics and facelifts, such that enhancement beyond makeup and snake oil has become routine in images of women. And then there's Photoshop, internet porn, fashion blogs a thin line away from the also-new world of online thinspiration, etc. "</i><br /><br />Being the good Marxian economic determinist that I am, I'd propose that the radical explosion of the GINI coefficient in the US since Wolf's book was published has had no small effect in creating a more sea lion-like sexual dimorphism in human US society.<br /><br /><i>"Danish television, my goodness. I may not be highbrow enough for that."</i><br /><br />I do fully understand you can't get enough of professional wrestling, <i>American Idol</i>, and <i>The Nanny</i>, but it is worth your while to at least check out <i>Borgen</i>. If you can get past the subtitles, it's just good, clean, middle-brow, gender-equality fun.Peteynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-78345362649150410192013-05-14T20:53:35.572-04:002013-05-14T20:53:35.572-04:00Petey,
"Feminism has just stalled over the p...Petey,<br /><br />"Feminism has just stalled over the past two decades in the US."<br /><br />It would seem that everything Wolf mentions has gotten more extensive. There's a whole new world of procedures between cosmetics and facelifts, such that enhancement beyond makeup and snake oil has become routine in images of women. And then there's Photoshop, internet porn, fashion blogs a thin line away from the also-new world of online thinspiration, etc. <br /><br />There's a backlash, but it's very much like how Wolf describes women's mags - there will be some serious post on Jezebel, say, about one of these issues, and then some mainstream celebrity coverage, as in, look how cute whichever actress looked at whichever gala event. <br /><br />Danish television, my goodness. I may not be highbrow enough for that.<br /><br />Fourtinefork,<br /><br />With the luminizer, I suspect it's the one that I bought - a Lorac one that seemed sufficiently pale for the likes of me, but that's strangely not greasy enough, plus with a pump that doesn't really work, which can lead to situations where one is quickly wiping luminizer off the floor before one's poodle gets to it. <br /><br />And wasn't that comment great? I so often cite comments for being ridiculous, but sometimes they spell out exactly what needed to be said about a given article. Because it's not just that women have long dealt with the drudgery of cooking. It's also that women have long dealt with the drudgery of incessant thoughts about food.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-72600098977782104512013-05-14T20:22:02.872-04:002013-05-14T20:22:02.872-04:00At least luminizer actually does something palpabl...At least luminizer actually does something palpable (maybe not good, if one isn't good at applying it! But something noticeable nonetheless), unlike all the supposed anti-aging creams which may or may not be doing a damn thing. I stand by High Beam. It makes me look awake when dabbed in the corner of the eyes, although it can't seem to magically give me fantastic cheekbones.<br /><br />And, that NYT reader comment was fantastic.fourtineforknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-29585476581885780122013-05-14T19:17:47.661-04:002013-05-14T19:17:47.661-04:00"Whether the credit goes to Wolf as trickled-...<i>"Whether the credit goes to Wolf as trickled-down into the culture, or whether women have been thinking these things for a good long while regardless, I couldn't say."</i><br /><br />Wolf was simply faithfully chronicling her zeitgeist.<br /><br />Feminism has just stalled over the past two decades in the US. We're not much further along now than we were then, and one could even argue that man of the deep thoughts of the day have been forgotten in a neo-Dark Ages.<br /><br />(Of course, Scandinavia marches on as always. Time to watch <i>"Borgen"</i>, if you haven't already...)Peteynoreply@blogger.com