tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post8198956540572580513..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: But it's Jewish chlamydia!Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-68213841030817842652010-08-18T10:06:02.817-04:002010-08-18T10:06:02.817-04:00I did go on Oranim, and Momo's approach to ...I did go on Oranim, and Momo's approach to 'Jewish continuity' was creepy as all get-out. I'll need to look into this more...Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-72295205547055650952010-08-18T08:02:28.362-04:002010-08-18T08:02:28.362-04:00Did you go with Oranim for Birthright Israel? I di...Did you go with Oranim for Birthright Israel? I did, and thought your post was entirely accurate, but was surprised to learn that they have recently been kicked out of Birthright for essentially engaging in excessive promotion of casual sex. Momo now operates the same trips independently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-9318073104051783462010-07-22T04:54:25.830-04:002010-07-22T04:54:25.830-04:00Nick,
Don't think I didn't consider the p...Nick,<br /><br />Don't think I didn't consider the pro-Israel angle :)<br /><br />"it's hard to draw the line between a white lie and a deception that rises to the level of obviating consent."<br /><br />Hard at the boundaries, perhaps, but there are some less confusing examples. With the fidelity issue, one could end up with a surprise STD, or raising another man's child. With the twins, this is impersonation of another actually-living person, along with forcing someone to cheat without knowing. <br /><br />The Arab-posing-as-Jew scenario strikes me as being most similar to other cosmetic lies, such as lies about age where statutory rape isn't at stake (i.e. a 40-year-old claiming 35 to sleep with someone 25, someone who tells the truth about having been tested for whichever diseases but fudges the number of past partners, someone who claims to have been captain of the football team or to be the child of a wealthy or famous person, someone who...). The consequences of sleeping with someone who's lo and behold an Arab or 40 years old are plenty slight - at most, either the fact of deception or the new info itself will prevent what otherwise might have been an LTR from forming. For what was at face value consensual to be sexual violence in retrospect, I would think (and I don't, obviously, know the specifics of the law, in Israel or the US) something truly damaging would have had to have occurred. I'd think this would fall quite definitively on the side of... of within the expected range of honesty one could expect from someone one has just met and decided to sleep with.<br /><br />Even those too honest to do the above tell plenty of lies by omission - which is normal, and the truth gets revealed over time, when appropriate, assuming the relationship lasts. Given that this was a hook-up and not anything more serious, it could be that he made something up impulsively and was just waiting for the moment to fess up. Not good behavior, but not rape.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-76799909901118914002010-07-21T17:30:39.919-04:002010-07-21T17:30:39.919-04:00to be fair, this draws on a line of fairly well-es...to be fair, this draws on a line of fairly well-established, if difficult, jurisprudence.<br /><br />the question is, at what point does deception negate the consent that was originally given?<br /><br />there have been cases where twin brothers have, unbeknownst to their spouses, "swapped places." other more difficult cases involving deception have also taken place. or in which someone in a marriage made a representation as to fidelity that later turned out to be untrue, and I think that resulted in a sexual assault charge.<br /><br />it's easy to say that something like that is ridiculous, but in reality it's hard to draw the line between a white lie and a deception that rises to the level of obviating consent.<br /><br />I think at some level things go from mere preferences to the very foundation of sexual consent. a modern, consent-based regime cannot flee from such questions because they are hard.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14363311128428661742noreply@blogger.com