tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post6313606972351849328..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: Man oh man UPDATEDPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-3923308630853086982012-11-21T17:53:45.157-05:002012-11-21T17:53:45.157-05:00She now views her spouse (was this ever a good tim...<i>She now views her spouse (was this ever a good time for "spouse"!) as a woman, which is how her spouse identifies, and the proof that she does is that this very same person, now a different gender, isn't doing it for her.</i><br /><br />Most trans people I know do not like references to their having been a different gender at some previous point. It's more like having been "closeted" about their true gender, and now coming out as a woman. The letter indicates the husband is of this type: "Then my husband, whom I love very much, told me he wants to become a woman—or, she has always felt like a woman trapped in a man's body, and if she doesn't begin transitioning, she will be emotionally crippled."<br /><br />So it might be more precise to say, "this very same person, now [known to be] a different gender, isn't doing it for her." I agree with Prudie's point, "This feeling he is a woman trapped in a man's body is not a new discovery for him, and he withheld absolutely crucial information from you prior to your marriage."PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-84068370748352436272012-11-21T14:30:58.234-05:002012-11-21T14:30:58.234-05:00Along the same lines, Phoebe, did you read the lat...Along the same lines, Phoebe, did you read the latest Savage Love? A man wants a polyamorous relationship, but the woman wants monogamy. He says, well, I'm willing to accommodate her by not forcing her to have sex with other people. Why can't she accommodate me by allowing me to sleep around? <br /><br />So yeah, it sounds very edgy to describe yourself as 'poly' but when male entitlement gets involved, for this guy at least, what you end up with is a Newt Gingrich-like monogamy for you and not for me thing.caryatisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-89902320178803882712012-11-21T14:09:59.609-05:002012-11-21T14:09:59.609-05:00Polygamy is also, you know, illegal.
Well, legall...<i>Polygamy is also, you know, illegal.</i><br /><br />Well, <i>legally marrying</i> multiple people is illegal, yes.<br /><br /><i>Effective polygamy</i> [or polyamory, whatever], without an attempt at a legal marriage among the plural members, is perfectly legal - and just as much a potential relationship problem.<br /><br />(Just as "I want an open relationship, <i>and you can have one too</i>" can be a deal-breaker with as much legitimacy as "I want an open relationship, but <i>you can't</i>" - anything that changes the fundamental ground-rules of the relationship can be a valid end-point, whether or not it's "feminism-informed". <br /><br />[Even if it's "negotiated", for that matter, since negotiated agreements that feel fine now might not later, and a "permanent" relationship isn't something one can realistically sublimate to "but you said it was OK then!", forever.]<br /><br />The preceeding above is slightly different from the conversation with caryatis, above, but related.)Sigivaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152366541957466049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-58359448281223168082012-11-21T12:55:34.704-05:002012-11-21T12:55:34.704-05:00JTL,
You really have it in for Prudie! But in a f...JTL,<br /><br />You really have it in for Prudie! But in a follow-up to this that I hope to have time for, I'll be linking to commentary on a related topic in the Guardian. Higher-brow, at least, maybe. It's the bigger issue this speaks to that interests me, not the admittedly moronic question of whether it's OK to leave your spouse after he gets a sex-change.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-10612043736441629752012-11-21T12:48:31.537-05:002012-11-21T12:48:31.537-05:00I know better than to click on the Prudie question...I know better than to click on the Prudie questions on Slate, but somehow I don't know better than to read your posts about them. No matter how good your takedowns are, I'm always just depressed at the level of stupid you're reporting on.Jacob T. Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02575549001627195334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-14570209173495783342012-11-21T12:14:50.909-05:002012-11-21T12:14:50.909-05:00I don't know if she's quite that unsophist...I don't know if she's quite that unsophisticated. I think she's implying that the man is asking not for an open marriage, but for license to have more partners, without losing his first one, and without offering the same to her. It's not so unusual for a man to feel entitled to this, so I wouldn't assume that what Prudie actually meant was a negotiated, feminism-informed polyamorous arrangement.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-72900871752252426442012-11-21T10:38:15.428-05:002012-11-21T10:38:15.428-05:00Knowing how sexually unsophisticated Prudie is, I ...Knowing how sexually unsophisticated Prudie is, I suspect she's using "polygamy" to mean what I would call "polyamory." Which, of course, is still a breach of the terms of the original marriage contract, albeit less unfair.caryatisnoreply@blogger.com