tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post3858313658391086654..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: A theory of the JAPPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-58076930746284800722008-11-19T17:22:00.000-05:002008-11-19T17:22:00.000-05:00In France they're called FRAPPES.In France they're called FRAPPES.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-87651109742084193492008-11-18T10:51:00.000-05:002008-11-18T10:51:00.000-05:00You might also want to see if there are equivalent...You might also want to see if there are equivalent phenomena among Jewish communities in Britain, France, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-5491289981685336232008-11-18T10:41:00.000-05:002008-11-18T10:41:00.000-05:00has every black woman been accused of being a BAP?...<I>has every black woman been accused of being a BAP? Do black men avoid dating black women because they assume Bappiness?</I><BR/><BR/>I'm a little skeptical that this has happened to <I>every</I> middle and uppper-income Jewish woman. It must have some relationship to geography and closeness to the Jewish community. My closest friend who is Jewish is technically "half Jewish" (one of her parents converted and she was raised in the faith), has lived her whole life in the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic (Wisconsin, Virginia, St. Louis) and mostly seems to be Jewish in a religious rather than super-cultural way, if the two can be teased apart. She's engaged to someone who is not Jewish (or of any religion) himself, but who is willing to raise their kids in Judaism. I don't think she's ever had the JAP experience, even though her parents are reasonably well-off.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I definitely can say that within my community, guys will avoid matches with women based on the perception that the woman has been too accustomed to the good life and will be dissatisfied with, or excessively demanding on, his income. I think there's a necessary patriarchalism built into the -AP phenomenon as you've described it -- the idea that women go from the house of their indulgent father to that of their husband, and that such women lack the ability/desire to earn their own damn money.PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-82818526997606503312008-11-18T07:52:00.000-05:002008-11-18T07:52:00.000-05:00"It's pretty hard to be an "American princess" if ..."It's pretty hard to be an "American princess" if your household income is $50,000 a year and you live in Ohio."<BR/><BR/>It's harder to be a visible one, but there are children spoiled and flashy clothes purchased at all socioeconomic levels. In fact, if anything the JAP tends to come from less wealthy parts of the Jewish community--think Fran in "The Nanny." If she were already well-off, she wouldn't care so much about finding a rich husband, would she?Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-52104664324524574192008-11-18T07:49:00.000-05:002008-11-18T07:49:00.000-05:00I think you are ignoring the obvious: as Jewish pe...I think you are ignoring the obvious: as Jewish people have a higher median income then most other groups more of them have the money to spoil their daughters with if they choose to do so. It's pretty hard to be an "American princess" if your household income is $50,000 a year and you live in Ohio.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-42390931344839172052008-11-17T18:48:00.000-05:002008-11-17T18:48:00.000-05:00I'm pretty sure BAP is a play on JAP. It's not tha...I'm pretty sure BAP is a play on JAP. It's not that there aren't princess-equivalents in other cultures, but has every black woman been accused of being a BAP? Do black men avoid dating black women because they assume Bappiness? Perhaps, but I doubt it.<BR/><BR/>"I have been told by conservatives that "excessive" focus on one's ethnic background, particularly in choice of spouse, signifies failure to assimilate and is unAmerican."<BR/><BR/>Ha, right, unless you happen to be white and Protestant, in which case pairing off with someone like yourself is charming in a 'high-school sweetheart-Mr. and Mrs. Mike Huckabee' kind of way.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-78279974129490699942008-11-17T18:45:00.000-05:002008-11-17T18:45:00.000-05:00You seem to assume that the JAP is sort of an isol...You seem to assume that the JAP is sort of an isolated phenomenon in American culture, but what about the BAP? Surely there is a [fill-in-ethnicity] American Princess for every non-WASP (the <I>original</I> Princesses) community.<BR/><BR/>The "find a man <I>within my community</I>" seems to be especially important to the Princess identity without being all that American. (I have been told by conservatives that "excessive" focus on one's ethnic background, particularly in choice of spouse, signifies failure to assimilate and is unAmerican.)PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.com