tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post1914283674607339059..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: Oh the misogynyPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-22992084146679125742009-08-26T04:29:13.705-04:002009-08-26T04:29:13.705-04:00I just discovered this post by searching on Google...I just discovered this post by searching on Google for "hatred of Jewish women." I was trying to find out if there was a word for this particular brand of misogyny. <br /><br />One excellent description of the phenomenon you describe is in <i>Fighting to Become Americans: Jews, Gender, and the Anxiety of Assimilation</i> by Riv-Ellen Prell (1999). Alas, there doesn't seem to be a one-word term for it.Rabbi Ruth Adarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03468420042704868076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-62706192168286587612009-06-01T17:28:40.081-04:002009-06-01T17:28:40.081-04:00Anon 1,
Interpretations of Bible stories certainl...Anon 1,<br /><br />Interpretations of Bible stories certainly matter, but the Orientalization of the 'Jewess' was, I'd think by definition, a phenomenon specific to Western or Central Europe. <br /><br />asg,<br /><br />Re: Ivanhoe, it's on the reading list...<br /><br />Anon 2,<br /><br />"Drieu la Rochelle was an antisemite and didn't need Jewish male encouragement."<br /><br />It's not about "encouragement." It's about internal, Jewish attitudes about Jews playing a part in shaping how non-Jews understand Jews, a phenomenon that includes Jewish self-hatred (or Jewish male hatred of Jewish women) influencing the form taken by (gentile) anti-Semitism.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-49575595310541425982009-05-31T07:03:52.685-04:002009-05-31T07:03:52.685-04:00Drieu la Rochelle was an antisemite and didn't nee...Drieu la Rochelle was an antisemite and didn't need Jewish male encouragement. <br /><br /><br />Also along with Jews, Orientals in general were seen by racists as feminine. This goes back to ancient Greece which saw Persians that way. <br /><br />This is the kind of attitude conquering people in general have of conqured ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-316115630133623142009-05-29T22:47:48.694-04:002009-05-29T22:47:48.694-04:00There's also Rebecca from Ivanhoe.There's also Rebecca from Ivanhoe.asgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-57138796531911682902009-05-29T22:26:08.760-04:002009-05-29T22:26:08.760-04:00Thanks Phoebe- that's the sort of thing I was thin...Thanks Phoebe- that's the sort of thing I was thinking of. I think some of it persisted up until the early 20th century in silent films and early talking movies and the like, with the mistress often being Jewish.Matthttp://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=410582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-68218698868214321732009-05-29T21:20:50.440-04:002009-05-29T21:20:50.440-04:00Yes, I think you're right, but would you say bibli...Yes, I think you're right, but would you say biblical or quasi-biblical figures like Queen Esther or Jezebel fit the definition of Jewess-as-seductress?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-25453847494012559852009-05-29T20:17:33.999-04:002009-05-29T20:17:33.999-04:00Matt,
The idea of Jewess-as-seductress was, from ...Matt,<br /><br />The idea of Jewess-as-seductress was, from what I understand, a part of Romanticism, and was not an attitude held by Jewish men, but by non-Jewish men who may have never met a Jewish woman, but who liked the idea of a woman who was part-'Oriental' and part-European (as in, non-black, French-speaking, etc.). My guess is that this image fell out of favor in part because non-Jewish men came to know (and thus de-exoticize) actual Jewish women, but also because Jewish men came to have a major role in creating representations of Jewish women, and these new representations were coming from a totally different place.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-26567293216629342472009-05-29T17:49:00.781-04:002009-05-29T17:49:00.781-04:00I remember a version of the first joke from when I...I remember a version of the first joke from when I was growing up, but it was with two guys and a rattlesnake bite. Growing up in Idaho, though, homophobia and rattlesnakes were more common than Jewish women. <br /><br />My vague recollection is that there was a time when "the Jewess" was thought to be a dangerous hyper-sexual thing. I can't remember why I think that, though, if it's from old literature or if I'm just misremembering. Does that seem right?Matthttp://www.ssrn.com/author=410582noreply@blogger.com