tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post8155089523535283290..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: Fine diningPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-91176534267482927062009-01-03T09:31:00.000-05:002009-01-03T09:31:00.000-05:00Hi Phoebe.I live in Paris. What Americans can perc...Hi Phoebe.<BR/><BR/>I live in Paris. What Americans can perceive to be rudeness is often just seriousness. The French are mortally afraid of seeming silly. This explains their semi-permanent scowls and why they think we look like morons because we smile so much. Also, the difference with being a waiter here is that it's a métier-a career-and so they are proud of what they do. While in the States, waiting tables is considered a crap job pretty much by anyone. So it must be hard for a French waiter who has some pride about his job to wait on Americans who think he's a loser...<BR/><BR/>I've never heard of a waiter running after someone for a bigger tip. As you know, here 15% is added on to every bill and they are more likely to be offended if you leave too much more than that. There's a lot of room intercultural misunderstanding in these situations. I've lived here for 2 and a half years (originally from California) and it's been--interesting.<BR/><BR/>I actually stopped by because you have declared yourself a francophile, and I thought you might like to know about www.francophilia.com, the social network for francophiles.<BR/> <BR/>We launched a year ago, and in 2009 we're going to add a marketplace where you can get your fill of French stuff. We're a tiny startup operating on a shoestring budget, and depending on francophile bloggers like you to help get the word out.<BR/><BR/>Hope you and your readers will stop by and join us! And please help spread the word!<BR/> <BR/>Merci et à bientôt.<BR/> <BR/>Pamela Poole (LaGoulue)<BR/>FounderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-9449137754099733582008-11-26T17:54:00.000-05:002008-11-26T17:54:00.000-05:00"The pointlessness the tip is that it does not, as..."The pointlessness the tip is that it does not, as it currently exists, work to encourage good service and punish bad. To under-tip or not tip at all is to say you don't care if the waiter's out on the street. A high tip makes you a humanitarian, a show-off, or a flirt, depending on the context, but has little to do with a job well done."<BR/><BR/>I disagree that tips are pointless. In a few cases they make a real difference<BR/><BR/>1) If you are a regular somewhere and you routinely slightly over tip (say 25%+) you will get treated with priority. You can get seats even if there is a line, get a table even if its late and the kitchen will close soon, or in the case of delivery get food in the rain without it having gotten cold. Even somewhere with as much turnover as new york, places still have memories.<BR/><BR/>2) At fancy places, I'm told that management notices tips as they do have something to do with service and will get rid of waiters who are frequently under tipped. So you tip helps improve the restaurant. That said I don't know if this is actually true since I've never run a fancy restaurant, it may just be a myth.<BR/><BR/>Both of those aside. My experience from a lot of travel and a decent sample size of places is that (excluding Japan) there is a strong correlation with the level of service and the custom of tipping in a country. So even if one it doesn't do anything, across soceity as a whole it seems to.Not-a- Generic-User-IDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05635256734372315559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-41413475053103424912008-11-22T21:02:00.000-05:002008-11-22T21:02:00.000-05:00Wow. If a server ever (EVER!) confronted me about...Wow. If a server ever (EVER!) confronted me about the amount of a tip I left I would be BEYOND appalled. Especially if the service at the restaurant was so obviously subpar. <BR/><BR/>How did you respond to that server, Phoebe? That's all I want to know. (I don't need to hound every last sentence.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-71810699819439539892008-11-22T19:34:00.000-05:002008-11-22T19:34:00.000-05:00"I don't think it matters if one assumes one is li...<I>"I don't think it matters if one assumes one is liked or disliked, and there's also something patronizing about being too sure a waiter hates his job. It's just a professional (loosely defined as not personal) interaction, in which both people act more interested in the other than they probably are."</I><BR/><BR/>But it's also an oddly intimate interaction. Meals are a rather domestic activity, even outside the home.<BR/><BR/>No matter what the actual reality, my point is that there is value for both sides in the shared polite fiction that the customer is lovable and that being on the clock is odious.<BR/><BR/>The polite fiction provides context for the oddly intimate interaction, and gives reassuring roles for both the server and the served.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-63952758596549872332008-11-22T19:04:00.000-05:002008-11-22T19:04:00.000-05:00Oh, and there was another comment. I don't think i...Oh, and there was another comment. I don't think it matters if one assumes one is liked or disliked, and there's also something patronizing about being <I>too</I> sure a waiter hates his job. It's just a professional (loosely defined as not personal) interaction, in which both people act more interested in the other than they probably are.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-68628057906705183402008-11-22T19:00:00.000-05:002008-11-22T19:00:00.000-05:00Bad service is, the waiter's rude, takes forever t...Bad service is, the waiter's rude, takes forever to get your order, brings you the dish the table over ordered, doesn't apologize, rolls his eyes when you ask for 'just a salad' or, if overweight, the dessert, chats with friends who stopped by rather than bringing you your drinks, gives you a look if you're dining alone, and so on. It's anything that isn't a smiley staffperson promptly bringing you the food you ordered. I can live without prompt, polite, or smiley. Being cheated out of money or asked outright to pay more is maybe a <I>subset</I> of bad service, but is really it's own beast.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-84834222165875943192008-11-22T18:42:00.000-05:002008-11-22T18:42:00.000-05:00"As someone who ... takes it as a given the waiter...<I>"As someone who ... takes it as a given the waiter a) dislikes me, by virtue of my being a customer"</I><BR/><BR/>Better etiquette calls for operating under the assumption that the waitstaff loves you and hates the job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-46674270720461428132008-11-22T18:23:00.000-05:002008-11-22T18:23:00.000-05:00"I at least double the tax, crappy service or exce...<I>"I at least double the tax, crappy service or excellent, because that's the staff's wages. "</I><BR/><BR/>Yup.<BR/><BR/><I>"As for the waiter having a right to confront those who don't, hard to say."</I><BR/><BR/>I think it's pretty clear. The etiquette calls for north of 15% or a confrontation. The whole restaurant tipping thing is a bit like a "trick or treat" choice.<BR/><BR/><I>"That out of the way, should a waiter chase down those who tip less than 15%?"</I><BR/><BR/>They are well within the bounds of etiquette to do so.<BR/><BR/><I>"ultimately a customer does have the right to leave no tip, pestered or not by the waiter."</I><BR/><BR/>Yup.<BR/><BR/><I>"As someone who truly doesn't care about good service beyond the food being something like what I ordered..."</I><BR/><BR/>Now, here's where I'll truly disagree with you.<BR/><BR/>You cared about the bad service involved in the waiter trying to upsell you in a manner you found rude.<BR/><BR/>That was bad service, and you cared enough about it to complain about it in blog form.<BR/><BR/>In fact, were you able to live your life pre-scripted, you could have used the opportunity of the waiter complaining about getting 17% instead of 20% to respond, "You're lucky I gave you anything at all. The service was shitty." And you would have been on the correct side of etiquette in responding that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-83256427305616894382008-11-22T17:09:00.000-05:002008-11-22T17:09:00.000-05:00Petey 2nd comment,There was a DJ? I'm afraid your ...Petey 2nd comment,<BR/><BR/>There was a DJ? I'm afraid your second comment's too hipster-in-the-know for me to respond.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-88913193007400583182008-11-22T17:08:00.000-05:002008-11-22T17:08:00.000-05:00I at least double the tax, crappy service or excel...I at least double the tax, crappy service or excellent, because that's the staff's wages. <BR/><BR/>As for the waiter having a right to confront those who don't, hard to say. There's <I>clearly</I> no right to confront those who tip less than 20%, let alone to claim a 20% tip is customary and that those who fail to pay up are rubes. It's insulting.<BR/><BR/>That out of the way, should a waiter chase down those who tip less than 15%? None? (Assuming of course the chase-down doesn't culminate in a demand for 20%.) If they see that customers are tourists who genuinely don't know, they can urge 15%. But really, this info is in guidebooks, everyone knows, and ultimately a customer does have the right to leave no tip, pestered or not by the waiter.<BR/><BR/>The pointlessness the tip is that it does not, as it currently exists, work to encourage good service and punish bad. To under-tip or not tip at all is to say you don't care if the waiter's out on the street. A high tip makes you a humanitarian, a show-off, or a flirt, depending on the context, but has little to do with a job well done. <BR/><BR/>As someone who truly doesn't care about good service beyond the food being something like what I ordered, and takes it as a given the waiter a) dislikes me, by virtue of my being a customer, and b) (esp. in NYC, where waiting tables is a for-now job) dislikes bringing food to Point A to Point B, and as someone who <I>does</I> mind meals out being this unspoken contest between waiter and customer over who can sneak out with the better deal, I'd rather an extra 17% (or whatever) added to the cost of each dish.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-66603841323967207802008-11-22T16:57:00.000-05:002008-11-22T16:57:00.000-05:00Also, when you patronize LES restaurants with DJ's...Also, when you patronize LES restaurants with DJ's, I believe you contractually forfeit your right to complain about getting ripped off during the dining experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-86330636007662509932008-11-22T16:53:00.000-05:002008-11-22T16:53:00.000-05:00How much did you leave? You do really have to lea...How much did you leave? You do really have to leave at least 15% if you're going to leave anything at all.<BR/><BR/>And if you do choose to leave nothing, the waiter is fully within his rights to confront you about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-23805643704021720012008-11-22T14:14:00.000-05:002008-11-22T14:14:00.000-05:00Bad service/hipster snobbery doesn't bother me, it...Bad service/hipster snobbery doesn't bother me, it's the getting ripped off that does. A small but key difference.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-92109749457496686652008-11-22T14:05:00.000-05:002008-11-22T14:05:00.000-05:00Posts like this make me really wish I lived in New...Posts like this make me really wish I lived in New York. I love this kind of place. I tend to be a beloved regular at the sort of joint for which there are dozens of yelp comments bemoaning the hipster snobbery of the staff. Which, I suppose, is a sign of terrible character.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com