tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post7901026175298103068..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: Ted Danson-envyPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-41096785802755151902011-09-28T10:31:55.145-04:002011-09-28T10:31:55.145-04:00The UChicago campus is particularly depressing in ...The UChicago campus is particularly depressing in this regard. There are actually probably MORE men here than women, but I've been in classes that are possibly 75% men, and was unable to pick out a single hot guy. Neckbeards abound. While there are definitely some unattractive women, I'd say on the whole women are better looking than the men here, and I see plenty of relationships where the woman is (IMO) "settling" in the looks dept. Of course, she might have different ideas of beauty than I do, but it gets really demoralizing after awhile. Also, strangely enough, I feel like it does something negative to your self esteem to be hit on by men you consider completely unattractive. While here, I've been asked out by a bevy of incredibly unattractive men, and rather than be flattered by the attention, it just makes me a bit sad and confused: do these men consider us to be of equal attractiveness? Are these the men I should be aiming for? (Does a 60ish neo-con who is 1) shorter than me and 2) has more hair in his nose than on his head really think a reasonably attractive 20-something woman he meets at a conference wants to date him?) I could see how after awhile, even a really beautiful girl here would break down and just date some scrawny guy with a neckbeard because she thinks this is "her league."Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02224221011978374915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-90428731564808285172011-09-27T09:56:39.615-04:002011-09-27T09:56:39.615-04:00David,
I think we took different routes to this b...David,<br /><br />I think we took different routes to this but arrived at the same conclusion. I agree with you that it's part of the human experience in a not-necessarily-bad and sometimes-good way to be valued for your looks. And it's something that even most with no particular "objective" beauty get to experience, being physically appealing <i>to someone</i>. I'd generally looked at this in terms of it being part of the human experience in a mostly-good way to be with a romantic partner one finds physically attractive, but I suppose both do enter into it.<br /><br />Matt,<br /><br />I'm all for nuance, but am not following your comment. In which milieu are beautiful men valued? Other than among (some) gay men, I'm not aware of any. And I'm fairly certain that if this were a quirk specific to working-class whites, it's unlikely that I'd have not only picked it up, but come to assume it to be universal. I mean, it's certainly true among intellectual types - like I've said before re: "too brilliant to bathe." Up to a certain (high!) threshold, a man can look disheveled and out-of-shape, and this is interpreted merely as evidence that he's too busy being a genius to focus on his person. Whereas a brilliant woman must also bathe, watch her weight, etc. to make her place even in an intellectual milieu.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-81120243991792983442011-09-27T01:21:14.204-04:002011-09-27T01:21:14.204-04:00I agree with you Phoebe, in the main. The problems...I agree with you Phoebe, in the main. The problems men have with beauty standards do pale compared to what women deal with. But I do think it's often helpful to recognize that attitudes toward male beauty vary by class and ethnicity. While the classic critique of, say, The Honeymooners is pretty much right in what it deals with, it also fails to notice that all early television, even sitcoms about the working classes, were made for middle class audiences. Shows with more middle class characters may have paired beautiful women with Desi Arnaz. When you write, "If anything, a man who is too handsome (unless in a Jon Hamm sense) is looked at as being not quite masculine enough," this is much more of a white, working class attitude with a varying impact. Within specific milieus, beauty standards for men are likely to be more consistent and effective. Traveling between milieus, they are likely to be frustratingly inconsistent. That doesn't add up to weak standards without effect, even if the effects are considerably less than what women face.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05146833770654841724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-59375789135378409742011-09-26T22:33:13.542-04:002011-09-26T22:33:13.542-04:00Second Thing We Do, Objectify All The Men.<a href="http://dsadevil.blogspot.com/2008/11/second-thing-we-do-objectify-all-men.html" rel="nofollow">Second Thing We Do, Objectify All The Men</a>.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.com