tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post753953788559392459..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: You are not alonePhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-72624710165560687582008-05-21T09:40:00.000-04:002008-05-21T09:40:00.000-04:00As a non-leftist Jewish 'Zionist,' I feel that pro...As a non-leftist Jewish 'Zionist,' I feel that progressive Jews are being hoisted on their own petards. This is what they get for being the first (and often loudest) to chime in on every trendy, international <I>cause celebre</I> that they don't understand. Exhibit A: Kosovo. Exhibit B: Ukraine. Exhibit C: Tibet. And the list goes on, ad infinitum.<BR/><BR/>Kinda sucks when it happens to us, <I>non</I>?<BR/><BR/>ChaimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-4401034849676478672008-05-14T10:54:00.000-04:002008-05-14T10:54:00.000-04:00I'm sure it's somewhere on your blog, but I'd be i...I'm sure it's somewhere on your blog, but I'd be interested in a recap on the aspects of France and Israel that you find positively attractive to you. What about them grabs your affections? Or could you even have a sidebar? It seems a natural ornament for a blog on Francophilic Zionism.Withywindlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11465319711207992232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-37051516617132954642008-05-14T00:02:00.000-04:002008-05-14T00:02:00.000-04:00"(J-Street makes) it abundantly clear where they d...<I>"(J-Street makes) it abundantly clear where they differ from others who are pro-Israel, but they're going to have to face, sooner or later, that they're light-years away from other self-proclaimed progressives."</I><BR/><BR/>This seems definitively wrong.<BR/><BR/>While there certainly are Tony Judt-like voices on the left who are basically opposed to nationalism, and thus opposed to a Israel defined as a "Jewish nation", the large majority of progressive voices have a position quite close to J-Street's - that the problem is the occupation and the settlements.<BR/><BR/><I>"from what many ask on the left, namely that Israel remove its (allegedly) anachronistic, colonialist self from the globe."</I><BR/><BR/>This is your standard strawman.<BR/><BR/>The colonial behavior that folks with a moral center object to is the occupation and the settlements, not the existence of Israel.<BR/><BR/>While I understand that blurring the distinction between the '48 borders and the '67 "borders" makes your case easier to argue, I would also think that grappling with reality would be more interesting for you than grappling with strawmen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-15016286256072134812008-05-13T23:42:00.000-04:002008-05-13T23:42:00.000-04:00Where from the post do you get that this is suppos...Where from the post do you get that this is supposed to be about me, as in, experiences I'm claiming to have had as a left-wing Zionist? I'm left-wing? Socialist? Maybe a bit socialist after various NYC apartment searches, but the post was clearly about how those who identify as solidly left and pro-Israel (see: Dissent Magazine) advocate something far removed from what many ask on the left, namely that Israel remove its (allegedly) anachronistic, colonialist self from the globe. <BR/><BR/>A lot of the blog is narcissism, but this post was not the self-referential one you've made it out to be.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-59508321938539884292008-05-13T22:58:00.000-04:002008-05-13T22:58:00.000-04:00"Really, no one cares if you're against the settle...<I>"Really, no one cares if you're against the settlements"</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, folks care about that a lot.<BR/><BR/>There was no conflict between being "pro-Israel" and being on the left before 1967.<BR/><BR/>The case against Israel among folks with a moral center is historically a function of the occupation and settlements, not the existence of Israel. Vigorously ignoring this fact is a precondition for most of Phoebe's criticism of the criticism of Israel.<BR/><BR/>-----<BR/><BR/>Also, how would Phoebe know how people feel about Zionists who are against the settlements? <BR/><BR/>A quick <A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awhatwouldphoebedo.blogspot.com+settlements&btnG=Search" REL="nofollow">search</A> of her blog shows she's never had a single bad word to say about the settlements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-68427132749529997592008-05-13T18:37:00.000-04:002008-05-13T18:37:00.000-04:00WWPD is a breath of fresh air.WWPD is a breath of fresh air.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13088947408526684203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-72302990737802610122008-05-13T17:35:00.000-04:002008-05-13T17:35:00.000-04:00That should definitely be a blog, The Pesky Jew. T...That should definitely be a blog, The Pesky Jew. Thanks for the link from the Feministe comments, btw!Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-90285829745962446252008-05-13T16:36:00.000-04:002008-05-13T16:36:00.000-04:00If I was blogging pseudonymously, I'd adopted the ...If I was blogging pseudonymously, I'd adopted the handle "pesky Jew."David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.com