tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post3143812258458874685..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: With age, the freedom to frownPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-39070885882623013052012-10-02T14:51:27.294-04:002012-10-02T14:51:27.294-04:00Andrew,
I do think baseline expressions vary. Min...Andrew,<br /><br />I do think baseline expressions vary. Mine is definitely more frown than smile, likely because I began taking public transportation alone in NYC at age 10. Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-1343779763417310842012-10-01T21:27:26.090-04:002012-10-01T21:27:26.090-04:00I was certainly never unnerved by it, for the obvi...I was certainly never unnerved by it, for the obvious reason that I'm bigger and stronger than the people saying it and hardly in any fear of my safety. I just found it really annoying. To be honest, I've always assumed that I have an unnaturally dour expression when my face is neutral or I've assumed that everybody gets it on occasion. I used to get it from women on public transportation, from women who were shopping in the same store, even (once) from a woman who worked for me (then it was expressed as "how come you never smile?"). Andrew Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13453328821252013152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-70841643218671249182012-10-01T21:08:38.240-04:002012-10-01T21:08:38.240-04:00Britta,
What you're describing could be creep...Britta,<br /><br />What you're describing could be creepy, or it could be that cringe-inducing way that certain adults address children. I mean, it's assumed that little girls want to look pretty, so a way to get a little girl to do something normative (if you're a certain brand of imbecile) would be to use this as the reward. But I kind of think in this day and age, a teacher who did that, if this were known, might well be fired for it.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-61215736292793200752012-10-01T21:04:56.089-04:002012-10-01T21:04:56.089-04:00PG,
"that someone who passes you on the stre...PG,<br /><br />"that someone who passes you on the street or sits next to you on the bus does is an insane level of sociability and fakery even by American standards"<br /><br />Which was exactly my reaction in the 2005 post. It would be so weird to smile on a NYC bus, sitting there by yourself. Which is why maybe it's a demand that you smile *at them*, thus the creepiness factor.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-21196969310846327722012-10-01T20:15:56.293-04:002012-10-01T20:15:56.293-04:00Meh. When it's followed with a "you look ...Meh. When it's followed with a "you look prettier when you smile" and then isn't just a one-off but a repeated command over the course of days then I think that crosses a line for a 45 year old to tell a 12 year old.<br /><br />Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02224221011978374915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-65870912654999163232012-10-01T19:45:09.529-04:002012-10-01T19:45:09.529-04:00I think the smile command also can come up with a ...I think the smile command also can come up with a kind of power motivation when used toward someone in a service or public-facing position. People giving the command might even think they are dispensing useful advice. (And maybe they are; I have certainly overheard older people complain about a service person having a "bad attitude" if she failed to be smiley, even if she was perfectly courteous.) I've never had a job interacting face-to-face with dozens of people a day, but I have had one over the phone, and I certainly endeavored to use a "smiley" tone of voice.<br /><br />What does seem absolutely bizarre, and mostly about male control over females, is telling a complete stranger with whom you have no reason to engage that she should smile. Maybe a customer or client can expect/ demand the appearance of happiness, but that someone who passes you on the street or sits next to you on the bus does is an insane level of sociability and fakery even by American standards. (Which of course are not international standards -- I loved the story about Wal-Mart having to retool its cheery customer service standards for Germany because the locals were creeped out by greeters.)PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-14674147794212573102012-10-01T19:30:23.809-04:002012-10-01T19:30:23.809-04:00Britta,
I think "hitting on" may be too...Britta,<br /><br />I think "hitting on" may be too broad a category, encompassing what are actually a range of really different motivations. There's on the one hand men trying to start romantic involvements with attractive-to-them/available-seeming women who are strangers to them. There is, on the other, men finding that certain women - often quite young, often, well, girls - seem like they'd be easy to get a rise out of. They seem, in other words, either naive or at that age when you <i>really, really care</i> what other people - including strangers on the street - think about you. Telling a sullen or exhausted 15-year-old girl to smile isn't necessarily expressing romantic interest in, or even aesthetic appreciation of, the girl in question. It's about power, not lust.<br /><br />Andrew,<br /><br />That something doesn't happen exclusively to one sex or the other doesn't make it "not gendered." (See also: weight-think.) I have not, as I mentioned, studied this in depth, but I would be beyond shocked if men a) get this as much as women, or b) are as unnerved by it on the rare occasions it occurs. This isn't to say you didn't find it odd when women did this. Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-66936897779152299022012-10-01T18:12:26.000-04:002012-10-01T18:12:26.000-04:00By the way, I'd never really thought of it, bu...By the way, I'd never really thought of it, but I can't recall having gotten it in the last five years (but that also coincides with a significant withdrawal from dealing with a large number of strangers). And, yes, it's quite a relief since I found it very annoying and off-putting.Andrew Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13453328821252013152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-42006215470644226542012-10-01T18:10:24.693-04:002012-10-01T18:10:24.693-04:00I have to say that this particular thing is not ge...I have to say that this particular thing is not gendered. I used to get this <i>constantly</i> from women, both older, same age, and younger. I must confess that it never occurred to me that they all were trying to flirt with me (since so many of them were much older). When I originally started writing this comment, I was going to disagree with you about whether this was necessarily even a flirting strategy at all. However, I discussed it with my wife first and she is of the opinion that all these women were, in fact, probably trying to flirt with me. So all I'm pointing out now is that this tactic is hardly unique to men. In fact, I used to think that it was only women who cared if other people were smiling or not.Andrew Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13453328821252013152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-24351594420422172532012-10-01T16:38:10.662-04:002012-10-01T16:38:10.662-04:00I imagine the men saying it assume they're hit...I imagine the men saying it assume they're hitting on someone in a non-creepy, uplifting way, instead of just in an annoying way. The first person who ever told me to smile was my 7th grade music teacher, which at the time just confused me but in retrospect I realize is really creepy. Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02224221011978374915noreply@blogger.com