tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post2325425616871849219..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: On 'weddings'Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-92187003675024257332013-03-07T19:42:33.609-05:002013-03-07T19:42:33.609-05:00Savages in Memphis,
Yes, while I focused on the t...Savages in Memphis,<br /><br />Yes, while I focused on the threads, that post itself was something in its own right. One need not embrace choice feminism to say that it's a bit less than feminist to joke about assaulting women whose presumed choices aren't consistent with your values/aesthetics. I say presumed because it's not clear which gargantuan rings are real or fake, which are heirloom, which were requested and which were a gift it would have been awkward to decline, assuming what the gift symbolized was desired. <br /><br />And it's that last bit I find frustrating about ring-judgment: the tradition is such that women tend to receive these, often unprompted, and may not have selected whichever style or material. Of all the things a woman is wearing, this is the one she's least likely to have actively chosen. Meanwhile the men who've purchased the most offensive-to-Jezebel rings are, what, invisible? Much of the bragging on Jezebel seems to be about how pleased certain commenters are that their fiancés really understand them. It's not all that different from bragging that one is truly loved because one's ring cost a fortune.<br /><br />And... yes, 100%, re: local-ness oneupmanship. I think it's the mix of consumerism and anti-feminist symbolism with weddings that makes this so extreme in this arena.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-35398888635902549172013-03-07T19:21:20.481-05:002013-03-07T19:21:20.481-05:00Caryatis,
Let me try to address most of this:
-I...Caryatis,<br /><br />Let me try to address most of this:<br /><br />-It seems a bit of a stretch to say that I'm telling women what to do. At least in the sense some readers expect this from that publication, i.e. readers who remember Lori Gottlieb asking women of a certain age to "settle." My point is basically that the proper response to the line of thought that says one is only married of one spends a ton and wears a diamond isn't to say that one is only married if one spends as little as possible and wears a ring made of twine. <br /><br />-Re: the cost of weddings, this is something I get at in the piece (see re: McMansions, and the link from Wedding Industrial Complex is to the average cost of an American wedding), but don't focus on. That's because this is largely about pride in unconventional weddings. Cheap (as in, cheaper than the norm in whichever area) is just one way a wedding can be unconventional.<br /><br />-Re: avoiding this, one way to avoid anything along these lines is to be conscious of it and, if you're happy with whichever choice, to, as a commenter there says, "own it." Another is to just say that your life is not up for discussion. To say, sure, there's some interesting gender analysis possible, but let this be done on a societal level, and not in terms of one's own friends'/acquaintances choices in particular.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-3810771687994164762013-03-07T18:47:59.049-05:002013-03-07T18:47:59.049-05:00I'm surprised at the conclusion many of your c...I'm surprised at the conclusion many of your commenters took away from your article. I was so appalled by that Jezebel article about engagement rings (at first because of the "violence might be done to you because of what you are wearing!" aspect of it, and then for the commenters trying to one-up each other for how non-traditional their rings were) but I had no organized way to express my outrage about it, and certainly no term to describe what I saw at work there. I think the movement afoot to out-local, out-handmade, out-DIY extends beyond weddings, but the social implications in that particular genre are interesting. <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-23103092806076384912013-03-07T13:28:45.069-05:002013-03-07T13:28:45.069-05:00Is it easy to avoid the competitive wedding conver...Is it easy to avoid the competitive wedding conversation, though? I wouldn't know, but I would think you'd get a lot of questions from other women about your wedding plans. And even if you answer in a neutral way, what's to stop them from taking your wedding or lack thereof as an implicit judgment of theirs?...which then leads to the other women getting defensive and justifying their choices, and then you get defensive and argue for your choices, and...I can imagine it working that way.caryatisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-64818974094355304932013-03-07T13:24:54.142-05:002013-03-07T13:24:54.142-05:00I got the impression that commenters, like me, wer...I got the impression that commenters, like me, were expecting you to tell women what to do at some point and since you didn't really, they read it into what you did write. <br /><br />But now you are, I guess, by suggesting that women should have the wedding they want, without using the wedding as a way to make a statement about their comparative status. Or at least to keep the status competition in their own heads, and curb the urge to tell other women they did it the wrong way. <br /><br />Other issue: weddings are incredibly expensive! Is it possible that some women are patting themselves on the back for their cheap weddings as a way of convincing themselves that their wedding was different because it's "special"--not just because they didn't have the money for a traditional one?caryatisnoreply@blogger.com