tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post114772497134794982..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: A long attempt at an explanationPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-1148032059406154792006-05-19T05:47:00.000-04:002006-05-19T05:47:00.000-04:00For your enlightenment: The example of Belgian-Ame...For your enlightenment: The example of Belgian-American is a very bad choice as Belgium consists of two (actually three, but the German minority is miniscule) communites. Somebody identifying himself as a Belgian-American must be either an oddity or in expectation of American cluelessness.<BR/><BR/>French speaking Waloons and Dutch speaking Flemish do not exactly love each other. Nationalism only exists for the soccer team, the red devils, and Belgian beer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-1147979372820589482006-05-18T15:09:00.000-04:002006-05-18T15:09:00.000-04:00I found that article a little condescending - any ...I found that article a little condescending - any culture X could have someone saying "Well those of us back in the old country are the only real X-ites, and you X-Americans are missing part of what it means to be truly X." And the X-American response is, "So what?" I understand why Jewish people are more hesitant to embrace pluralism and assimilation, but if you believe in multiethnic democracy then you have to believe there is nothing better or worse being 100% some culture or 50-50 two cultures or a giant mix of everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-1147784833801986382006-05-16T09:07:00.000-04:002006-05-16T09:07:00.000-04:00Phoebe, what a great post! I think you explain rea...Phoebe, what a great post! I think you explain really well that basing a sense of identity on situation comedy or facial similarity leaves one a little undernourished in the modern world - as opposed to, say, in a traveling family of goat herders somewhere in the 1300s. <BR/><BR/>I would only add that treating the state of Israel as a center of Jewish identity has to be recognized as a contemporary concept in a historical string of such concepts. In Eastern Europe and the US, Socialism was a strong unifying theme for large numbers of Jews for a while. And I think that in a lot of E. European countries, the achievements of fellow Jews, against all odds and such, was also often a source of identity. Half the Russian jokes begin with, "A little Jewish boy and his violin..." <BR/><BR/>I guess I think that at bottom, having a historical identity of any kind is what counts. And if, like Shteyngart, you choose to treat your identity with distaste, even as you make a living off writing about it for uneducated American heathen (or whoever he thinks his audience is) then you leave your self-conception largely up to others to define. Which is distasteful. <BR/><BR/>Nonetheless, treating specifically Israel as really an anchor of your identity requires knowing it, I think, as a center of a nation's life and not as solely a political notion. Because believing in a formative power of something that you don't understand, don't have access to its psyche - that also makes me think of goat herders afraid of the thunder god or something. And I think that you accomplish that sort of understanding because you study the history of Jews in the formation of Israel, but for me, for example, at this point in my life, to look to Israel as an element of myself is as confusing as to look to the Pilgrims. <BR/><BR/>But to look to, say, Mexico (to which my only connection is having learned the language for many years) as a country struggling with creating a fair system of government - that somehow connects with my historical understanding of where I come from, and gratifies my interest in life and how people live. And provides exactly the sort of preventative medicine, I guess, against self-dislike based on a group identity you haven't chosen. Anyway, hope this makes a margin of sense.Katherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771431543168237456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-1147760038078413432006-05-16T02:13:00.000-04:002006-05-16T02:13:00.000-04:00I know people who get offended when I tell them th...I know people who get offended when I tell them they are idiotic for referring to "Seinfeld" as their Jewish cultural base.Sethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02597510798676166378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-1147749339206077782006-05-15T23:15:00.000-04:002006-05-15T23:15:00.000-04:00Well, for what it's worth, there's a black-Asian c...Well, for what it's worth, there's a black-Asian couple on Gray's Anatomy. <BR/><BR/>More importantly, I think the idea of a positive or active secular Jewish identity is fascinating and, to me, just out of reach. I was recently in a group discussing the publication Jewish Currents, which just merged w/ the Workman's Circle, and which thinks of itself that way. It's certainly not about self-hatred, and the people at the paper didn't seem bitter or angry towards religious Jews, but all the same I'm not entirely sure what an actively, positive secular publication can be about.<BR/><BR/>They say Jewishness, not Judaism. I guess it's history, and identity, and a certain shaping of viewpoint and shared experience. It's not something I have an easy time understanding.esterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01029156681791421501noreply@blogger.com