tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post1005932266775108339..comments2024-03-12T22:31:46.500-04:00Comments on What Would Phoebe Do?: Yom sans kippaPhoebe Maltz Bovyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-50741327527335085922012-09-27T14:45:57.534-04:002012-09-27T14:45:57.534-04:00Phoebe,
No, you're right. When the ban was pa...Phoebe,<br /><br />No, you're right. When the ban was passed, less than 2% of girls actually wore a headscarf to school. There's also the legitimate feminist argument that banning the veil would simply make really religious parents pull their daughters out of public school, thus further marginalizing them. Also, even for anti-racist groups run by immigrants or their descendants, I found the argument "well, if girls don't wear a headscarf the teacher won't discriminate against them as much" to be common, an argument most Americans would find victim-blaming at minimum. <br /><br />I think, to the extent I don't think the ban was racist (which I think for many reasons it was, I don't want to downplay that here), is that there is a sense among Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Muslim fundamentalism is an increasing problem in banlieus, in large part because of the large number of angry, disaffected unemployed youth. One Muslim informant of mine called them "paradise dealers," as akin to "drug dealers." I think, again, to the extent the ban was trying to address something legitimate, it would be maybe akin to trying to decrease gang activity in US inner cities by banning baggy pants. Again, it would be misguided, not effective, and probably also motivated by some sort of racism, but it is true that gang activity is a problem historically growing out of racist policies but not currently necessarily directly attributable or related to racism.<br /><br />I've been thinking about this after lots of talks this summer with my godmother about Turkish immigrants, and that one reason why it's hard for Americans to understand European immigration is that it's a whole bunch of things rolled into one that here are separate. When we think about racism and urban ills, we think about black people; when we think about immigration and the changing nature of the US, we think mostly about Latinos; and when we think about terrorism we think about Muslims who generally aren't US citizens. In Europe, all of these are wrapped up together.Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02224221011978374915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-56975411554920801422012-09-27T13:49:43.790-04:002012-09-27T13:49:43.790-04:00I know much less about this topic than Britta does...I know much less about this topic than Britta does, but a bit more than the average person, being in my 10,000th year of a PhD program on Modern France. But my understanding of this is that the French who, for feminist, reasons support veil bans (and remember, there are also those who want to ban it for xenophobic reasons, which may or may not be framed as feminist reasons) do so precisely because they believe that these are necessary to permit all French women, Muslims included, to have access to all the opportunities France has to offer. The opportunity to express one’s religious individuality isn’t as highly-valued there as here, and it’s considered legit, kind of, that others would judge you for forms of difference that are not innate. (As in, racism is bad, but being treated differently on account of some hyphenated identity you might have, in theory, rejected in favor of an entirely French one, c’est normal.) So even if there were some way to ban forced but not voluntary wearing of the veil (a logistical near-impossibility), this would only solve part of the dilemma. The assimilation bit would remain.<br /><br />As for why I'm not crazy about it, basically because it's kind of an invented non-problem. From what I remember of this, very few French women of Muslim or Arab heritage or self-identification even wear the veil. Also because I think the motivations here are not as benign as they might seem, even when feminist reasons are what are given. (As in, it can be racist even when someone who isn't named Le Pen is involved.) Also because, as an American, the French approach to multiculturalism is something I can understand intellectually, but can't quite get behind.Phoebe Maltz Bovyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17996039330841139883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-45110795886337299792012-09-26T23:18:36.188-04:002012-09-26T23:18:36.188-04:00Yeah, the headscarf issue in France is complicated...Yeah, the headscarf issue in France is complicated. I think I've noted this before here, but mainstream anti-racist groups like SOS-Racisme were for the ban, which they saw as a way to combat violence and harassment against immigrant women. In the large banlieus this violence isn't minimal and I think gets discounted in conversations about the ban in the US, but it also could probably be dealt with in more direct effective ways. <br /><br />Your phrasing also reminded me of a memorable moment I had interviewing an Algerian immigrant about the veil. After finding out his sisters veiled, I asked him if it was their decision or his parents' decision that they wear a headscarf. He just looked at me like I was kind of stupid and said, "It's Allah's decision." It was a little bit of a jolt and made me realize that I was thinking on a different level than my informants. Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02224221011978374915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7146512.post-85907394413173223392012-09-26T16:31:43.193-04:002012-09-26T16:31:43.193-04:00There's a feminist case - not one I tend to ag...<i>There's a feminist case - not one I tend to agree with - that Muslim women cover their heads or faces not as free religious expression, but because a male relative or cleric is forcing them to do so.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.bostonreview.net/BR22.5/pollitt.html" rel="nofollow">Some do it because of that</a>; some do it voluntarily. As ever, the feminist position presumably is to support women's having the choice. In a pre-existing condition of private, non-state forcing of women to do something, support of choice may have to include criminalizing coercion or harassment of women regarding head coverings. (India has such anti-harassment laws regarding dowry demands, and while men's rights types object to the laws, they are probably necessary in a society starting from a position of extreme de facto sex inequality.)PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.com